Dreams and Disagreements

[realsorien]

I've been sitting here for a few minutes after the fact debating whether to say something about what just happened to me or not... And I've decided that dammit, I'm gonna vent.

My first clear memories as a child were of the first moon landing. I was 4 years old, sitting in my parents living room as the Apollo 11 lander 'Eagle' landed on the moon. Over my entire life I've dreamed of space, and dreamed of mankind taking its place in the stars, whether it was the pie-in-the-sky vision of Roddenberry's 'Star Trek', or whether it was far more mundane with sublight drives and the 'long view' of interstellar space. I've always been facinated with the advances we've gained from space exploration, from the technologies of the rockets themselves to the raw knowledge that theres more out there to see.

So it hurts a lot when I have a friend kick me in the face and effectively call me stupid for wanting mankind to go into space. People in space, not just rockets and robots.

I mentioned this: http://www.space.com/businesstechnology/060705_blue_origin.html because I found it to be wonderful news- the DC-X is coming back! This was met with snide remarks like 'Why not just sit them on trillions of dollars and put a blowtorch on them- it'd be quicker'.

Regardless of my ability to instantaneously recall exactly what benefits space exploration has brought (there are a lot- my memory sucks however), Nobody should be forced into a corner to defend a belief that is a personal belief- I am NOT an idiot. I am well aware of the risks of spaceflight. So are the millions and millions of others who share my dreams. And especially so are those who have the wherewithal and courage to actually GO to space.

There are a myriad of reasons for mankind to go to space, both known and unknown. Will people die? Yes. Is this a reason to stop? No. Magellan, for example, never made it home from his explorations, but he changed the world. Someone has to do it, take the first step, pay the price and see what's there.

Are there problems with the way things are right now with the US space program? Of course. NASA has been mismanaged, underfunded and ruled by beancounters and media-mavens for years. This needs to change, and soon. But we still need to be out there.

I'm not able to give the best arguments right now. I'm hungry, hurt and frankly pissed off. Friends don't browbeat friends just because of a point of disagreement. I have no problem with people disagreeing with me. I can accept that. But I can't accept a situation in which I discuss something I believe in with all my heart where a friend then starts sarcastically attacking my beliefs, simply because he believes those beliefs to be foolish.

I'll flat out state you're uninformed. You've not spent the last 37 years following the subject. You've not done the research. You simply have decided its a 'bad idea' and rant at me. If you don't agree, fine. But don't fucking rip me apart! You have NO right!

Comments

[joshuwain.livejournal.com]

We have our disagreements, you and I, and have -each of us- trampled on each other's feelings. But in my saner, clear-headed moments, I can see you clearly and -yes- although we are in the same boat on this issue, even if we weren't you'd be right.

Ad astra.

[cuprohastes.livejournal.com]

So basically you're saying that no one is allowed to disagree with you?
And you've been following the space program for 37 years. Fine great. Dandy.
Oh hey, do I have pictures of the Columbia's cockpit on my wall? Why yes I believe I do! Gosh, it looks like you're not the only person who was a big fan of the subject!
Are you completely detached from reality on this subject? Yes.
You're going off and saying "We need to go into space... because it'd be neat". You have absolutely no other reason than that. You haven't got a leg to stand on because despite apparently "following the space program for 37 years" you haven't actually picked up on any of it.

Space, other planets are massively expensive to get to, and the environment is pretty much insanely dangerous. The lack of gravity also causes massive problems, such as having all the calcium leeched out of your bones and eventual death.

That's not counting all the random stuff like the fact that we don't have the technology to keep people alive without sending them new supplies every month or so - at $10,000 a kilogram.

Given that anything a person can do in space can be done faster, more efficiently, cheaper and less dangerously by a machine, why bother sending people up.

Your entire argument is "It's cool".

But because you've decided it's cool, no one is allowed to disagree with you or point out the reality of the situation? And then you storm off in a sulk because people won't back down and agree with your "belief"?

Not quite.

[sorien.livejournal.com]

I stormed off because you became sarcastic and mean. You weren't discussing. You were telling me I was wrong. If you go back and think about it, I said SEVERAL TIMES I had no problem with people disagreeing, but I feel we need to go to space. If you were discussing rationally as opposed to browbeating with snarky comments, I wouldn't have left. I don't bail because I'm 'losing'. I bail when the situation has become untenable and insulting.

I stated in my post- I'm not a good debater. Facts don't roll off my tongue smoothly or easily. You exploited that, and assumed that my reason was 'that it was cool'. Bullshit, and you know it. The technological advances from the space program, manned and unmanned, are unprecedented in their rapidity of development, save in times of war. THAT is one of my reasons. And there are more.

And you're still being sarcastic and mean.

[maelynd.livejournal.com]

Hold fast to dreams
For if dreams die
Life is a broken-winged bird
That cannot fly

*hugs* Call me whatever you like, hon, whenever you wish to. I'm here, I'm not going anywhere; you're family. I love debating issues with you, and snuggling too. And I promise I will never rip into you just because I've had a bad day or anything like it. Personally... whomever it was that ripped you apart has an ass kicking coming from me - no matter whom he or she is, or thinks they are. You don't fuck with dreams, no matter how "absurd" they may be. And the person who did this to you... has no right to use the word "friend", not if they were stupid enough to upset you like this. Debate is one thing - this is entirely different. Don't ever tell me who did this - because this dragoness would be on the warpath within seconds, no matter whom the guilty party is, whether I know them or not.

Well...

[sorien.livejournal.com]

I just want them to respect my ideas and not rake me over the coals while rejecting them. :(